Dan Cameron - Latest Comments in Financial plan

Re: Financial plan

Martha — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:08:46 -0000

Kristi...just curious, why no NYC?

Re: Financial plan

Martha — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:07:23 -0000

No feelings hurt just felt it was going nowhere.

Re: Financial plan

Nate — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:36:06 -0000

what are feelings?

Re: Financial plan

Dan — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:57:54 -0000

JB: No, but Sara and I have talked about it for a while. Don't take it personal but we most likely wouldn't move to where you would be going it would only be reassuring that a move is possible.

The only thing that holds us back now is the great job that I have.

Like I said before, in 5 years: That will most likely be the time for us to pack up, if ever.

Are we finally dying down now? I hope it wasn't because people's feelings got hurt. Because this post and it's comments, heated or not, hasn't changed my opinion about you all. And I've actually got to know you all more; Kristi and BB.

Re: Financial plan

Kristi — Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:51:37 -0000

Thanks Brook! :-)
One of the hospitals with a great oncology nursing program (they are all out in east, by the way, except for one in Seattle and one in NM) was at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in NYC. I don't think I could live in or near NYC for many reasons.

Patagonia is awesome for at least considering to do the apartment thing for its employees! I think that it shows how much they value their employees and realize how unaffordable it is. They probably (I'm just speculating here) already pay their employees a good wage compared to anywhere else in America, but that the dollar doesn't quite stretch as far here. Especially for housing. Wish more companies would take Patagonia's lead.

Re: Financial plan

brookles — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:16:47 -0000

Kristi> that was totally meant as an encouraging comment

Re: Financial plan

brookles — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:22:19 -0000

MARTHA>housing affordability is NOT the issue regarding the NYC/SF comment, people who live in NYC/SF have no issue with home purchasing because it's NOT an option. People go NYC because there are more opportunities for work. NOT "oh, I think I'll go over here cause clearly the grass is greener, people make all this money, I'll buy a house" it's more like Ã¢â‚¬Å“I need to build up my experience in an industry that is challenging and creative AND get paid based on my skills NOT based on the fact that I'll work for less because here in Ventura there are 150 other guys posturing for the same job who will do it for less, because they want to live here and surf.Ã¢â‚¬? In NYC/SF industry growth makes the housing market there seem a little less NUTS. And I'm not saying it's 100% reasonable because nationally the housing market is crazy!

The problem with Ventura (and by the way "loving" an area is a form of idolatry) has housing priced AS IF they have the industry to support it.

BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP!!!

Kristi>I know several fire fighters who own property in Jersey and commute to NY.

Re: Financial plan

JasonB — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:18:30 -0000

And Dan that is so sweet that you would leave if I do. Have you spoken to Sara and Avery about this?

Re: Financial plan

JasonB — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:08:47 -0000

Wow. I do need to clarify that I was making 2 points in my post, it was a bit long so maybe it was unclear to some.

1. I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly becoming a place you must leave to do that. (it's too dang expensive across the board, hench the reason we are talking about this at all)

2. If I can't find a place like that now, I'm fine to live in a "city" that has more job opportunites and forgo the desire to own a home for a few years until things get more sane or my job experience allows me to get a job that pays me enough to afford a home in a place like Ventura.

And yes I can afford to live in a place like NYC over Ventura. First off I wouldn't live in Manhattan, that is too expensive. I'm not insane. But NYC has much more work opportunites for the skills and experience I have. And these jobs would benefit my career in a huge way. Working in a place where there is limited choices makes employers act cheap. They are the only game in town and they know it. No thanks. I would like more of a healthy and competitive work culture in a town.

I'm not a steel worker so I'm not necessarily looking for more industrial jobs. But I wish this area was trying to attract more companies to be here. Carpinteria kind of does this. But housing costs is a huge problem in this area for employers. It's the main reason people leave my job and the biggest challenge faced at Patagonia, there was a great atricle in the VC Reporter a few weeks ago about Patagonia. They are actually conisdering building apratment buildings for the employees so they can live rent free and save for a home. That is telling indeed of the real problems this type of situation creates.

It's not that I hate it the way it is. I just wish it was different. Ventura is wonderful and was affordable for generations prior to this one. I wish it was different.

I don't mind moves. Me and my wife move well. I will miss the Bridge, but we are also realistic about our situation and making plans for the future that are going to be smart for us long term.

And while I don't think we need another LA or NYC I don't think that would be a bad thing. But what we do need is some more Austins and some San Franciscos 0.5 or 2.0s (1/2 the size and double the size of the current SF area) and some more Portlands and Seattles. More choice of places to live, places that have jobs and affordable housing, and decent school systems. It will happen. It will take 25 - 30 years but this will happen.

The people in these houses must have bought when property was cheap, which it was for years in Ventura, and they are selling and cashing in on a bigger place in VC. Or they are cashing out and retiring at 40 in other states off of the $1,000,000 they made off of a $100,000 investment or inheritance. It's quickly beoming the case that only VPs can afford anything in the county, unless both husband and wife are working at a pretty high level career wise, which is tough to do here.

And yes people are okay with it (people that love the sun or love where the land and water meet, or people that can afford it) but some are not and I am not able to.....and nothing is changing. Except I am getting more clear about my situation.

Re: Financial plan

Dan — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:19:22 -0000

Investors buy the real estate and then rent it out. California is a business for real estate nothing more. They are the ones okay with it and the majority of people that rent are not okay with it.

I too do not want it to be another LA or NYC but that is not what he meant.

Jason: You leave, I leave.

Re: Financial plan

Martha — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:20:19 -0000

You think you can afford NYC over Ventura? Hmmm. The majority of Venturans like it the way it is, that is why it stays this way. There have been many votes to make it more industrial, but they are always shot down. This isn't a personal remark, and I really don't want anyone to leave, but if you hate it they way it is, then go. I always hear people saying this stuff, but no one ever actually leaves. And do we need another La or NYC? And by the way, who are all these people living in these houses and buying all the new ones they keep building? Somebody must be ok with it.

Re: Financial plan

JasonB — Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:18:45 -0000

OK. I've been enjoying and benefiting from the polite and dignifed conversation that has been happening on this post for several days. Blogs really shine in discussions like this. I'm glad my wife has join the discussion.

All I have to add is:

There will continue to be complaints of house prices in areas that don't have the jobs/industry to support the people/families that work in said areas. ( a reference back to Kristi's post on firefighters, policemen, etc. who can't afford to live in the county they work)

Areas of greater choice and opportunity/options seem to speak loudly at times like this. I have a decent job in SB and can't even pretend to afford the crappiest place in Ventura. (Mobile homes are $600K in SB, not that I would want to be there anyway.)

Ventura/SB doesn't offer much variety for jobs. None that I know of would pay me enough to afford a home. Even if I ran one of the local companies, without money in the bank, by the time I saved enough for a downpament houses in VC would be $800+. No thanks. At that point I am practically a slave to my employer, like my co-workers (who bought 5+ years ago, a much different time)

It's time to expand. I'm ready to move. To a city like SF, NYC where I can at least have some choices of employers and also work with interesting people. California is a dream that has passed as far as buying anything (and I have low standards.)

I'm also down with some less metro places where I could afford property, but I feel I need to build some value for myself in a place of progressive ideas/technology.

I realize from being here (Ventura) for a year that I didn't hate the city (I lived in LA. for 11 years) but hated LA. I could live in other cities that are much less "me, me and spinners"

Work options and oppurtunities make me feel sane and sleep better. VC needs more industry.

I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly beoming a place you must leave to do that. Sad.

Re: Financial plan

Martha — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:00:59 -0000

Ok...some of that came out wrong or through the computer filter: misunderstood. I didn't ever say anyone was trying to take anything from me...just that sometimes having a "place of your own" is not all it is cracked up to be. I rented for a very long time and honestly, would gladly go back today. But, I guess my situation is unusual. Maybe it is just the extra people I live with that make me mentally unsound and I would actually enjoy my home if it were TRULY mine. I never said you shouldn't have a house, but I guess I get tired of the complaints of Ventura prices.

Re: Financial plan

Kristi — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 03:52:32 -0000

Martha- no one is trying to take anything from you. I don't want your house. Sorry if I offended you in anyway. All I was trying to say is how I want a place of my own. There's nothing wrong in that. God knows that it's not so I can get rich or have more stuff. I desire a yard, to be able to paint and remodel, to not have to put up with crazy landlords, and to plant flowers and food outside in my garden. Those things don't have anything to do with money. They have to do with my piece of mind and being able to do the things I dream of with a place that's my own to do it with/in. I wasn't in VC a few years ago. I didn't have an opportunity ever to buy in the market when it was less. I thought that once Randy and I got our jobs in order, we could afford a place. Not something huge or something to make money off of, but someplace we could call our own. That dream is fading the more housing prices go up, and it's very disappointing.

Re: Financial plan

brookles — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:35:55 -0000

Martha> I personally don't feel materialistic, meaning am not into "things". But there was a day when putting your money into land as an investment was a good thing. Not to mention I would like to live and grow (family wise) here in Ventura. Apartment living is not ideal for expanding a family. At best you can rent a 3 bdrm 1000 squ.ft. apt for $2100. OR rent a house. I think at end we are all frustrated at the fact that there is NO opportunity for growth here. At least not for now in the housing market.

?? "fake world" ??

Re: Financial plan

Martha — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:57:23 -0000

I still can't figure out why people are so intent on owning a house. I never heard anyone talking about it as much a few years back when average houses were in a decent price range. I can tell you this, I would give up our "fake world" for the "real world" of mortgage payments any day...you all can have my living situation. There are somethings that are not even worth getting for free. Seems you all are sure intent on money and having things. Here, have mine.

Re: Financial plan

brookles — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:20:02 -0000

Kristi> attached is crazy story that mentions how only a 16% of Californians can afford housing in California...at least we aren't along. Oh and most people are doing the no interest loans for the first 2-3 years then refinancing to bring the rate down...here's the quote from the article

"Rising prices have also raised the issue of how affordable housing is in some parts of the country. The California Association of Realtors expects the median price of a home in that state will reach $575,000 by next year. Only 16 percent of the state's population can afford a home at that price, the association noted."

http://www.rismedia.com/ind...

Re: Financial plan

Dan — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:18:58 -0000

Kristi: Sorry your wrong it's more like $180,096 annual for a $600,000 house with a 5% APR. I know it is more likely $130k like you said but the strange thing is that figure comes from lending tree and their best interest to sell loans not persuade.

Link

Re: Financial plan

Kristi — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 04:25:06 -0000

I read that someone would need to make $130K+ a year to afford a normal sized house. I'm talking a 3-4 bedroom, 2 bath, with a yard, coming in at atleast $600K (the median home price now in Ventura). I don't think that I have any friends who make that much who can afford to buy a median-priced house right now. I don't know what you make Jared, and I don't really care. Just be thankful you don't have to worry about housing prices and that you never will have to again. :-) I don't think that you really know what the rest of us feel like who want to buy because you haven't been "in the market" for real estate since this crazy boom happened in 2002-2003. It hasn't been a real issue for you, atleast not that I know of.
Randy is working overtime and I'm working now during school- so that when I'm finished next May, we'll have all our debt paid off and be able to concentrate on buying one of those 700 square footers on the avenue. Yippee. That's all we'll still be able to afford even with 2 people making good money working full time. That's the real world.

Re: Financial plan

JaredB — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:29:54 -0000

Sorry, I didn't mean for that comment to be uncomfortable; I think it might have made a little more sense if the rest hadn't gotten cut off, but now I don't remember what else I said. I wouldn't normally ever bring up how much I earn, but I was actually just responding to you bringing it up.

Re: Financial plan

Dan — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:18:11 -0000

Jared: i commend you for not putting value in monetary stuff like that. I do. But my family is; so wether a condo here with the B and friends is better then a house in a better area then so be it.

I meant you could have said nothing becuase I really dislike when people talk about how much they earn, because it comes across as bragging even though it isn't meant to be. That is why I also said come down a little bit. And you speaking of how much you earn only reassures my opinion, that if you have you don't worry about what you don't.

Re: Financial plan

JaredB — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:01:07 -0000

What did you mean when you said that I "could have said nothing"?

Re: Financial plan

JaredB — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:58:32 -0000

Dan: my first reference

The situation has come up for me before, and I didn't even consider it for a second.

was to a specific instance, a few years ago, in which I was offered to be moved and turned it down.

The second one,

I have had to think about it quite a bit

was just responding to your comment about me "never having to" consider the alternatives. I was just saying that at points in the not too distant past, I have had to deal with thinking about that stuff.

I was mostly just saying that I don't put too much value in monetary stuff in general, and owning a house is no exception. Not bagging on it, just saying that it's not the most important thing in life.

Re: Financial plan

Dan — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:33:27 -0000

I understand the ease of renting, we had been renting up until the beginning of this year. You do get a lot out of it at the time but I also feel/felt a percentage of that rent payment could have gone towards principle.

Does it sound like I want to make money off of the housing market? Sorry, I really didn't want it to come out like that. I am VERY sceptical about the housing market. And I never said I plan to flip a house, i just don't want to be tied down to anything. That is why I talk about first phase homes because it's not likely in 5 years that it would be worth less then what we paid. That is all. And that is my plan.

My plan: in five years figure out if it's worth it to stay.

And I totally agree with Brook; that's why I brought this up. I want my financial stability in property and not the stock market, the only other real other option.

Re: Financial plan

brookles — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:02:58 -0000

Hey Dan, Flint, MI has a fordable housing...I even found you a job

http://www.snagajob.com/vie...