The interest rates on second mortgages are generally pretty good, so to come up with a down payment for the second home you can take a second out on the first home. Hopefully the rent will at least cover both loans.
Nate
· 4 years ago
Also you can try to buy in areas that are increasing in value more than the average. I like looking for deals in areas that are growing fast and areas that aren't that nice right now, but might be in a few years.
By the way, Ventura is overrated.
nstryker
· 4 years ago
about the renting out thing. it only works if you have a heafty down payment to start with. how are you going to find a renter who will pay $3000 rent when they could pay a $3000 mortgage? you have to charge in rent less than what you would pay in a zero down mortgage.
secondly, if property is such a great investment, where's all the money? i come from a long line of property owners. i'm sure you do too. so why are we having to struggle to find afford a place to live? shouldn't my great grandparents and grandparents property holdings, meager they may be, cash out to at least a serious down payment? no? yeah, mortgages are just another way for the rich to make money off the poor.
Dan
· 4 years ago
now.
My family has/had nothing.
I don't know what your family has done but they could have opened a 2nd mortgage killing there equity or maybe they made some bad investments. I don't know but if they bought a house 40 years ago they should own a house straight up by know and they should be sitting on a good chunk of change.
Sara's aunt just sold there house that they bout for 12k a zillion years ago in Ventura for over 600K; you're saying that wasn't a great investment.
Everyone is in it for the money. You could say that the web is a racket for web designers because a phone book is free.
nstryker
· 4 years ago
phone books are not free, they are chalk full of advertising. every time you look at an ad, you've been charged. "men's wearhouse," ka-ching! the internet is no different.
i don't know what my family has done either. maybe nothing and they're just sitting on the funds. that's fine by me, i'm a better person for it.
what is the end result of that "great investment"? $600k? so what? what does that give her? at what moral cost?
the only way to own property is to incur debt, and debt makes you an indentured servant. is the ownership of property (and ultimately, simply the acquisition of more money - whoopty doo) really worth becoming a slave over?
nstryker
· 4 years ago
answering my own question: maybe it is. i don't know. it just feels morally wrong right now and like i said when i started: i might change my mind tomorrow. these are things i'm actively thinking about so who knows what conclusions i'll draw.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Technically you're in debt but not really, especially if you make a down payment because if you can't make the payments you sell the house and break even. Unless of some kind of crazy occurrence.
600K gives her money for her kids, a new house in MA and retirement. You plan on saving for retirement right?
While I am investing now in retirement I also feel that a good house acquisition would help the most when I want to retire at 60.
You're a bigger slave if you don't invest in your future and your rent pays another persons mortgage.
nstryker
· 4 years ago
my retirement plan is to be a traveling hobo. am i joking?
nstryker
· 4 years ago
mortgages are in debt, period. that's the same way any debt works, you can't make payments, so you lose whatever you've purchased with the money you borrowed. if that doesn't cut it, you go to jail. go to the san juaquin valley and meet all the people with roots in oklahoma. they're all there because they couldn't make loan payments on the family farm. the great depression destroyed lots of lives that put their faith in loans. everything is tempral.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Well if people have that mentality then we shouldn't have a problem renting out our property to good christian folk. You want to move into our place if we get another, 18 hundo a month?
Nate
· 4 years ago
Don't know if this is always true but it seems like rent prices lag behind home prices a bit but still go up at a similar rate. Just for reference, I bought a condo 2 1/2 years ago--not a great deal, definitely after prices started skyrocketing, but a little cheaper area then Ventura--and last week I finally saw an ad in the paper of a unit just like mine for rent at a price that would cover the mortgage, taxes, and HOA with a little left over. Now I'm looking for a fixer-upper with a yard or thinking of trying to get some land to build on in a cheaper area of town.
nstryker
· 4 years ago
400 more than we're paying for less room and more shared walls. sounds like a steal! :-)
Dan
· 4 years ago
How many rooms is your place? More room then a 3+1.5? i guess yours is a corner condo. Where is it again?
i only got that figure from the other places in TR.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
We're renting out our previous one (over by Buena) in case anyone's interested...
nstryker
· 4 years ago
it's a up/down duplex, so we actually have no shared walls, just a nice neighbor upstairs and her 14 year old son with size 16 shoes.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
I have been begging Randy to move. I am so disheartened. I love southern Cal, don't get me wrong. Having not been raised here, but in very Norman Rockwell-type surroundings in the midwest, I know how much money we'd save and how big of a house we'd have if we would move back to my hometown or to anywhere else in the US. Randy says "Then we'd be living there, and not near the ocean" and shoots down my idea of moving. He's a southern cal boy, and can't dream about moving away from Ventura. All I'm dreaming about is a house that's not overpriced, a neighborhood where we know everyone, and a yard that our kids can play baseball on. That's what I grew up with, that's what I dream for our kids.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
By the way, Randy called me while he was out on Saturday. He had passed a house on the avenue that he thought we may be able to afford just by looking at it (doesn't say much about the house, does it??? :-) ) When he got home and looked it up online, it had a whole 750 square feet, 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, and was $499,000. I laughed so hard, but probably because if I didn't laugh, I would've cried.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Sara has felt the same way for a while and I am slowly turning. Although I never gave the excuse of the beach I did point out the weather severity of those cheaper neighborhoods.
That house on the Avenue is stupid. Sara and I are looking at Riverwalk, the new development in Oxnard off the 101, from what they told us they will have 2,000 sq ft. townhomes (condos) in the 400s. Of course that is in he first faze but it's a great opportunity for an affordable place and a solid "investment". Also "in the 400s" means the smallest unit, 490k and no upgrades.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
We went and checked out the River Park development last week. You're right- in the $400K range probably will mean close to $500K and include no upgrades whatsoever. I like the idea of the place, though. Seems nice. Still, how could we afford a house that expensive? I'm sorry. I mean a condo. We pay $400K+ for a place where we own the air, not the ground it's sitting on. Randy and I have been looking at an alternative plan. We are looking for a small piece of land (outside Ventura City limits) that we can put a home on. We checked out the Macy modular homes, and were quite impressed. 2400 sq feet for approx $180,000. By the time we buy the land and the house, it will still be over $400K-$500K, but atleast we will own our own land and a big place. I know, some people think that modular homes are crap and don't resell well. That is wrong. Once sealed to the foundation, modular homes are just as good as stick built homes and are HUD-approved in every single way that a stick built home is. Resale value is equal. Something to think about for you and your family!
Dan
· 4 years ago
Yeah, new modular homes are really well designed. Where is this land?
I still can't get over our condo is worth two NEW 2500sq ft. homes in Washington. One for living and one to rent.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
We're looking in places like Santa Paula, Oak View, Somis, etc...somewhere outside Ventura city limits because for some reason city government says that modular homes can't be put on grounds within the city. Bunch of jerks. You should go check out the Macy homes. They have a few model homes at the main offices on Ventura Rd (the street between Victoria and Johnson that runs right up next to the freeway.). You and Sara may want to go that route too. Washington is one of the places we've considered moving to. Maybe Randy will change his mind. I doubt it, but maybe somewhere in the future.
brookles
· 4 years ago
Ok, Jason's told me to chime in on this, here gozz…in any other market YES real-estate is a solid investment. However, right now is NOT a good time to buy/invest. BUT if you were going to buy the lowest risk of investment loss (and I mean you actually are putting money down) would be to buy in the first phase of a new development. Buying new can only mean appreciation with your investment BUT in this market the appreciation may only make a good buffer for when this housing bubble pops (like in the late 8o's) At end, you won't loose the money you've put in and you might make a few grand. But don't hold your breathe, it's still Oxnard!!
As far as rental rates, they do move with the housing market. Unless of course you are living in your friend's, cousin's, house and the owner doesn't know that Ventura County is NOT rent control.
OH one more thing the national median home price has gone up from 140k in 2000 to 185k in 2004.
and for 2005 over 200k.
I won't be investing in a home until after 2008, hint hint wink wink
Dan
· 4 years ago
That's how I feel. There is no foreseeable loss in a first phase of a new development, if the price is right; lower then already built homes in similar size and location. Riverwalk is the closest you can get to Ventura without being in Ventura in my opinion because the freeway and the big wall they are planning to make between el rio and Riverwalk (the wall is similar to the wall I dream/imagine for our border).
Are you thinking that interest rates will come down with a new pres. or are you imagining a fluctuation in the availability of houses causing housing rates to lower? Like the whole interest only POP!!! that will come about soon.
brookles
· 4 years ago
"foreseeable" is the problem...investments in real-estate are meant to be sure things. BUT in this market it's a gamble. Let's see you either put your savings into a over priced home at today's still ok rates and hope the bubble doesn't pop. In which you loose your savings because the house's value dropped to 400k, but your loan is still at 500k. OR you borrow your ass off with a no interest loan, hope the interest rates don't MOVE (they are going up, by the way). Then when the interest rates turn your mortgage rate to $3000 a month, you can't sell your house cause the no interest loan has you locked in for 2 years. AND for those two years you're living on government cheese. OR yeah you could always file bankruptcy.
Oh did I forget to mention greedy real estate peeps who are just waiting for the wave of foreclosures once mortgage rates start to climb.
Kill Whitey
Nate
· 4 years ago
Dan "greedy real estate peep" Cameron
Dan
· 4 years ago
Nate: Isn't everyone here in that same boat?
Another reason we are looking into Riverwalk, they are the least likely to suffer from a fall out like Brook was talking about. Because we wouldn't/COULDN'T buy if they were overpriced and unlike many we understand mortgage plans/schemes.
Nate
· 4 years ago
I'm just playing. I'd buy a forclosed property.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
I've never really been too interested in houses. For me, there are way more important factors in choosing the city that you want to live in, like the people that you're near, and yes, even the weather. I really couldn't imagine moving to another state just because of the housing prices. The situation has come up for me before, and I didn't even consider it for a second.
As for the investment side of it, I don't know much about the real estate market, so I'll leave that discussion to those of you who sound like you know what you're talking about. I do think that eventually (next couple decades) there will be a lot more houses being put up in Ventura County, just because there is still so much prime undeveloped land that is currently being used for farming, etc. I think there's just too much money to be made for the owners of that kind of land to hold out for too much longer.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
I read in the VC Star that most new cops, firefighters, and nurses live outside Ventura County because there isn't a way for them to afford to buy a house here. Sure, you have the older ff, cops, and nurses who live within the county because they either have lived here their whole life or had bought a home a long time ago. The problem now is that with many people in all of these professions retiring, how will new people be able to move to VC and afford to buy a home and live? What the county is going to consider implementing is the same program teachers have: decreased mortgages, better rates on house loans, and affordable housing. I hope they pass it for all of our sake! Not just because I am a nurse, but because it would be the smartest thing for the county to do (especially considered the nursing shortage and how many cops and ff will be retiring over the next 5-10 years).
I'm interested in the housing prices because Randy and I do have another option- to live nearer to my set of relatives instead of his. We could move tomorrow to somewhere we could afford and could also be around family. Weather doesn't make a difference to me. I've lived through hot, cold, rainy, drought, and snow. I didn't come to Cali for the weather, nor do I stay. Never did cross my mind. I came for a change. Now I stay for only one reason- my husband doesn't want to move. And I can respect his decision, but doesn't mean I understand it. I want to find a way to make both of our dreams come true, as does he.
Housing is a good investment, especially if/when the kid go off to college and they need money and you can take a home equity loan to pay for it. Or to pay off medical bills or other unforeseen circumstances you may come across in your life.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Kristi: That's true. With that provision for VC nurses, cops and FF it still doesn't resolve the issues with the people with mediocre jobs like myself and many others living in VC.
Jared: You never considered it because you never had to. The people with the jobs that can only pay rent think about it a lot. Especially the ones that know renting gets you nothing. I think about it because we want something better. I think of out of state because of better job opportunities, family life (school clubs and not gangs), future financial stability but I stay for friends and theB.
Nate: How do you find those? It seems the real-estate agents sweep them up fast.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
Affordable housing for anyone here in the county must mean $400K. I thought that the county also was going to build some new homes (not just for nurses, ff, and police) that were "affordable", but that must mean "less expensive than Spanish Hills". I see all my friends who want to buy (including you and Sara) so disheartened because of the ridiculous prices. I agree with you- there should be provisions made for normal middle class families too rather than just teachers ff, cops, and nurses. Pretty soon, it will be an upper class town, just like Santa Barbara, and we won't have a choice but to move. We won't even be able to afford to rent in this town.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
Dan: actually, I have had to think about it quite a bit, just not recently. We haven't always had the housing situation we have now, and I haven't been making the money I'm making now for that long. Over the last 8 years I've averaged making about 10K more per year than the year before, which means that only 8 years ago I was making
JaredB
· 4 years ago
Oops, looks like it messed up my symbol and cut off the rest of my comment.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
PS - I'm not saying that my criteria are any better or worse than anyone else's either, in case it comes across that way. If you value those things then that's certainly fine for you. Dan, it sounds like you're staying for the same reasons that I wouldn't really want to leave either.
Dan
· 4 years ago
I didn't even consider it for a second.
or
I have had to think about it quite a bit
You could have said nothing, that wouldn't have messed up the .
Anyways, you should "come down" a little bit and consider what we are going through now; it is the same thing you went through briefly before. Only this time some of our situations won't change like yours has. If we had the prospect of increasing our pay by 30-20 percent over the next 5 years we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would buy a house already.
PS Nathan: Don't perceive my tone as PO'ed; I'm not.
Nate
· 4 years ago
I don't know how to find for forclosures. I've asked a few real estate agents both in California and Arizona and they always say they are hard to come by. I don't know if they get a commission from selling a foreclosure. Maybe they don't get much or it's too much work for them, or maybe they don't like to share their inside information, or maybe their telling the truth and foreclosures are just really hard to come by. Bottom line, I don't' know and have never done it.
Nate
· 4 years ago
Dan, I'm not trying to run you out of Ventura or anything but from my vast experience of moving a couple of times you'll find good friends and a good church anywhere you go.
Dan
· 4 years ago
The scary thing is I know.
brookles
· 4 years ago
yo peeps, first off not all of us are looking to make a money on real-estate, we are for the most part looking to park our money into something less volatile than the stock market. BUT on the other hand there has been a HUGE over population of Realtors looking to make the next big deal, cause they saw that guy on a late night infomercial. Greedy Realtors are much to blame for this market. I'm just trying to live here in Ventura and be able to paint a dining room wall if we choose to.
Dan: renting by the way does not mean you "get nothing" I go to sleep every night NOT having to worry about paying for a leaky roof, a busted water heater or termites. HECK, I don't even have to go to Home Depot when my kitchen light goes out. AND the best part I DONT have a ridiculous mortgage payment.
Nate: here's a site that has autions on land (some forclosed), but be forwarned every invester has his eyes on this sh*t
Kristi got it right, when a community can't even have firefighters, nurses or teachers living local, somethings gotta give. Which is where my earlier comment came from. 2008 change is a coming...
brookles
· 4 years ago
Hey Dan, Flint, MI has a fordable housing...I even found you a job
I understand the ease of renting, we had been renting up until the beginning of this year. You do get a lot out of it at the time but I also feel/felt a percentage of that rent payment could have gone towards principle.
Does it sound like I want to make money off of the housing market? Sorry, I really didn't want it to come out like that. I am VERY sceptical about the housing market. And I never said I plan to flip a house, i just don't want to be tied down to anything. That is why I talk about first phase homes because it's not likely in 5 years that it would be worth less then what we paid. That is all. And that is my plan.
My plan: in five years figure out if it's worth it to stay.
And I totally agree with Brook; that's why I brought this up. I want my financial stability in property and not the stock market, the only other real other option.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
Dan: my first reference
The situation has come up for me before, and I didn't even consider it for a second.
was to a specific instance, a few years ago, in which I was offered to be moved and turned it down.
The second one,
I have had to think about it quite a bit
was just responding to your comment about me "never having to" consider the alternatives. I was just saying that at points in the not too distant past, I have had to deal with thinking about that stuff.
I was mostly just saying that I don't put too much value in monetary stuff in general, and owning a house is no exception. Not bagging on it, just saying that it's not the most important thing in life.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
What did you mean when you said that I "could have said nothing"?
Dan
· 4 years ago
Jared: i commend you for not putting value in monetary stuff like that. I do. But my family is; so wether a condo here with the B and friends is better then a house in a better area then so be it.
I meant you could have said nothing becuase I really dislike when people talk about how much they earn, because it comes across as bragging even though it isn't meant to be. That is why I also said come down a little bit. And you speaking of how much you earn only reassures my opinion, that if you have you don't worry about what you don't.
JaredB
· 4 years ago
Sorry, I didn't mean for that comment to be uncomfortable; I think it might have made a little more sense if the rest hadn't gotten cut off, but now I don't remember what else I said. I wouldn't normally ever bring up how much I earn, but I was actually just responding to you bringing it up.
Kristi
· 4 years ago
I read that someone would need to make $130K+ a year to afford a normal sized house. I'm talking a 3-4 bedroom, 2 bath, with a yard, coming in at atleast $600K (the median home price now in Ventura). I don't think that I have any friends who make that much who can afford to buy a median-priced house right now. I don't know what you make Jared, and I don't really care. Just be thankful you don't have to worry about housing prices and that you never will have to again. :-) I don't think that you really know what the rest of us feel like who want to buy because you haven't been "in the market" for real estate since this crazy boom happened in 2002-2003. It hasn't been a real issue for you, atleast not that I know of. Randy is working overtime and I'm working now during school- so that when I'm finished next May, we'll have all our debt paid off and be able to concentrate on buying one of those 700 square footers on the avenue. Yippee. That's all we'll still be able to afford even with 2 people making good money working full time. That's the real world.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Kristi: Sorry your wrong it's more like $180,096 annual for a $600,000 house with a 5% APR. I know it is more likely $130k like you said but the strange thing is that figure comes from lending tree and their best interest to sell loans not persuade.
Kristi> attached is crazy story that mentions how only a 16% of Californians can afford housing in California...at least we aren't along. Oh and most people are doing the no interest loans for the first 2-3 years then refinancing to bring the rate down...here's the quote from the article
"Rising prices have also raised the issue of how affordable housing is in some parts of the country. The California Association of Realtors expects the median price of a home in that state will reach $575,000 by next year. Only 16 percent of the state's population can afford a home at that price, the association noted."
I still can't figure out why people are so intent on owning a house. I never heard anyone talking about it as much a few years back when average houses were in a decent price range. I can tell you this, I would give up our "fake world" for the "real world" of mortgage payments any day...you all can have my living situation. There are somethings that are not even worth getting for free. Seems you all are sure intent on money and having things. Here, have mine.
brookles
· 4 years ago
Martha> I personally don't feel materialistic, meaning am not into "things". But there was a day when putting your money into land as an investment was a good thing. Not to mention I would like to live and grow (family wise) here in Ventura. Apartment living is not ideal for expanding a family. At best you can rent a 3 bdrm 1000 squ.ft. apt for $2100. OR rent a house. I think at end we are all frustrated at the fact that there is NO opportunity for growth here. At least not for now in the housing market.
?? "fake world" ??
Kristi
· 4 years ago
Martha- no one is trying to take anything from you. I don't want your house. Sorry if I offended you in anyway. All I was trying to say is how I want a place of my own. There's nothing wrong in that. God knows that it's not so I can get rich or have more stuff. I desire a yard, to be able to paint and remodel, to not have to put up with crazy landlords, and to plant flowers and food outside in my garden. Those things don't have anything to do with money. They have to do with my piece of mind and being able to do the things I dream of with a place that's my own to do it with/in. I wasn't in VC a few years ago. I didn't have an opportunity ever to buy in the market when it was less. I thought that once Randy and I got our jobs in order, we could afford a place. Not something huge or something to make money off of, but someplace we could call our own. That dream is fading the more housing prices go up, and it's very disappointing.
Martha
· 4 years ago
Ok...some of that came out wrong or through the computer filter: misunderstood. I didn't ever say anyone was trying to take anything from me...just that sometimes having a "place of your own" is not all it is cracked up to be. I rented for a very long time and honestly, would gladly go back today. But, I guess my situation is unusual. Maybe it is just the extra people I live with that make me mentally unsound and I would actually enjoy my home if it were TRULY mine. I never said you shouldn't have a house, but I guess I get tired of the complaints of Ventura prices.
JasonB
· 4 years ago
OK. I've been enjoying and benefiting from the polite and dignifed conversation that has been happening on this post for several days. Blogs really shine in discussions like this. I'm glad my wife has join the discussion.
All I have to add is:
There will continue to be complaints of house prices in areas that don't have the jobs/industry to support the people/families that work in said areas. ( a reference back to Kristi's post on firefighters, policemen, etc. who can't afford to live in the county they work)
Areas of greater choice and opportunity/options seem to speak loudly at times like this. I have a decent job in SB and can't even pretend to afford the crappiest place in Ventura. (Mobile homes are $600K in SB, not that I would want to be there anyway.)
Ventura/SB doesn't offer much variety for jobs. None that I know of would pay me enough to afford a home. Even if I ran one of the local companies, without money in the bank, by the time I saved enough for a downpament houses in VC would be $800+. No thanks. At that point I am practically a slave to my employer, like my co-workers (who bought 5+ years ago, a much different time)
It's time to expand. I'm ready to move. To a city like SF, NYC where I can at least have some choices of employers and also work with interesting people. California is a dream that has passed as far as buying anything (and I have low standards.)
I'm also down with some less metro places where I could afford property, but I feel I need to build some value for myself in a place of progressive ideas/technology.
I realize from being here (Ventura) for a year that I didn't hate the city (I lived in LA. for 11 years) but hated LA. I could live in other cities that are much less "me, me and spinners"
Work options and oppurtunities make me feel sane and sleep better. VC needs more industry.
I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly beoming a place you must leave to do that. Sad.
Martha
· 4 years ago
You think you can afford NYC over Ventura? Hmmm. The majority of Venturans like it the way it is, that is why it stays this way. There have been many votes to make it more industrial, but they are always shot down. This isn't a personal remark, and I really don't want anyone to leave, but if you hate it they way it is, then go. I always hear people saying this stuff, but no one ever actually leaves. And do we need another La or NYC? And by the way, who are all these people living in these houses and buying all the new ones they keep building? Somebody must be ok with it.
Dan
· 4 years ago
Investors buy the real estate and then rent it out. California is a business for real estate nothing more. They are the ones okay with it and the majority of people that rent are not okay with it.
I too do not want it to be another LA or NYC but that is not what he meant.
Jason: You leave, I leave.
JasonB
· 4 years ago
Wow. I do need to clarify that I was making 2 points in my post, it was a bit long so maybe it was unclear to some.
1. I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly becoming a place you must leave to do that. (it's too dang expensive across the board, hench the reason we are talking about this at all)
2. If I can't find a place like that now, I'm fine to live in a "city" that has more job opportunites and forgo the desire to own a home for a few years until things get more sane or my job experience allows me to get a job that pays me enough to afford a home in a place like Ventura.
And yes I can afford to live in a place like NYC over Ventura. First off I wouldn't live in Manhattan, that is too expensive. I'm not insane. But NYC has much more work opportunites for the skills and experience I have. And these jobs would benefit my career in a huge way. Working in a place where there is limited choices makes employers act cheap. They are the only game in town and they know it. No thanks. I would like more of a healthy and competitive work culture in a town.
I'm not a steel worker so I'm not necessarily looking for more industrial jobs. But I wish this area was trying to attract more companies to be here. Carpinteria kind of does this. But housing costs is a huge problem in this area for employers. It's the main reason people leave my job and the biggest challenge faced at Patagonia, there was a great atricle in the VC Reporter a few weeks ago about Patagonia. They are actually conisdering building apratment buildings for the employees so they can live rent free and save for a home. That is telling indeed of the real problems this type of situation creates.
It's not that I hate it the way it is. I just wish it was different. Ventura is wonderful and was affordable for generations prior to this one. I wish it was different.
I don't mind moves. Me and my wife move well. I will miss the Bridge, but we are also realistic about our situation and making plans for the future that are going to be smart for us long term.
And while I don't think we need another LA or NYC I don't think that would be a bad thing. But what we do need is some more Austins and some San Franciscos 0.5 or 2.0s (1/2 the size and double the size of the current SF area) and some more Portlands and Seattles. More choice of places to live, places that have jobs and affordable housing, and decent school systems. It will happen. It will take 25 - 30 years but this will happen.
The people in these houses must have bought when property was cheap, which it was for years in Ventura, and they are selling and cashing in on a bigger place in VC. Or they are cashing out and retiring at 40 in other states off of the $1,000,000 they made off of a $100,000 investment or inheritance. It's quickly beoming the case that only VPs can afford anything in the county, unless both husband and wife are working at a pretty high level career wise, which is tough to do here.
And yes people are okay with it (people that love the sun or love where the land and water meet, or people that can afford it) but some are not and I am not able to.....and nothing is changing. Except I am getting more clear about my situation.
JasonB
· 4 years ago
And Dan that is so sweet that you would leave if I do. Have you spoken to Sara and Avery about this?
brookles
· 4 years ago
MARTHA>housing affordability is NOT the issue regarding the NYC/SF comment, people who live in NYC/SF have no issue with home purchasing because it's NOT an option. People go NYC because there are more opportunities for work. NOT "oh, I think I'll go over here cause clearly the grass is greener, people make all this money, I'll buy a house" it's more like “I need to build up my experience in an industry that is challenging and creative AND get paid based on my skills NOT based on the fact that I'll work for less because here in Ventura there are 150 other guys posturing for the same job who will do it for less, because they want to live here and surf.� In NYC/SF industry growth makes the housing market there seem a little less NUTS. And I'm not saying it's 100% reasonable because nationally the housing market is crazy!
The problem with Ventura (and by the way "loving" an area is a form of idolatry) has housing priced AS IF they have the industry to support it.
Kristi>I know several fire fighters who own property in Jersey and commute to NY.
brookles
· 4 years ago
Kristi> that was totally meant as an encouraging comment
Kristi
· 4 years ago
Thanks Brook! :-) One of the hospitals with a great oncology nursing program (they are all out in east, by the way, except for one in Seattle and one in NM) was at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in NYC. I don't think I could live in or near NYC for many reasons.
Patagonia is awesome for at least considering to do the apartment thing for its employees! I think that it shows how much they value their employees and realize how unaffordable it is. They probably (I'm just speculating here) already pay their employees a good wage compared to anywhere else in America, but that the dollar doesn't quite stretch as far here. Especially for housing. Wish more companies would take Patagonia's lead.
Dan
· 4 years ago
JB: No, but Sara and I have talked about it for a while. Don't take it personal but we most likely wouldn't move to where you would be going it would only be reassuring that a move is possible.
The only thing that holds us back now is the great job that I have.
Like I said before, in 5 years: That will most likely be the time for us to pack up, if ever.
Are we finally dying down now? I hope it wasn't because people's feelings got hurt. Because this post and it's comments, heated or not, hasn't changed my opinion about you all. And I've actually got to know you all more; Kristi and BB.
All Comments
By the way, Ventura is overrated.
secondly, if property is such a great investment, where's all the money? i come from a long line of property owners. i'm sure you do too. so why are we having to struggle to find afford a place to live? shouldn't my great grandparents and grandparents property holdings, meager they may be, cash out to at least a serious down payment? no? yeah, mortgages are just another way for the rich to make money off the poor.
My family has/had nothing.
I don't know what your family has done but they could have opened a 2nd mortgage killing there equity or maybe they made some bad investments. I don't know but if they bought a house 40 years ago they should own a house straight up by know and they should be sitting on a good chunk of change.
Sara's aunt just sold there house that they bout for 12k a zillion years ago in Ventura for over 600K; you're saying that wasn't a great investment.
Everyone is in it for the money. You could say that the web is a racket for web designers because a phone book is free.
i don't know what my family has done either. maybe nothing and they're just sitting on the funds. that's fine by me, i'm a better person for it.
what is the end result of that "great investment"? $600k? so what? what does that give her? at what moral cost?
the only way to own property is to incur debt, and debt makes you an indentured servant. is the ownership of property (and ultimately, simply the acquisition of more money - whoopty doo) really worth becoming a slave over?
600K gives her money for her kids, a new house in MA and retirement. You plan on saving for retirement right?
While I am investing now in retirement I also feel that a good house acquisition would help the most when I want to retire at 60.
You're a bigger slave if you don't invest in your future and your rent pays another persons mortgage.
i only got that figure from the other places in TR.
When he got home and looked it up online, it had a whole 750 square feet, 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, and was $499,000. I laughed so hard, but probably because if I didn't laugh, I would've cried.
That house on the Avenue is stupid. Sara and I are looking at Riverwalk, the new development in Oxnard off the 101, from what they told us they will have 2,000 sq ft. townhomes (condos) in the 400s. Of course that is in he first faze but it's a great opportunity for an affordable place and a solid "investment". Also "in the 400s" means the smallest unit, 490k and no upgrades.
Randy and I have been looking at an alternative plan. We are looking for a small piece of land (outside Ventura City limits) that we can put a home on. We checked out the Macy modular homes, and were quite impressed. 2400 sq feet for approx $180,000. By the time we buy the land and the house, it will still be over $400K-$500K, but atleast we will own our own land and a big place. I know, some people think that modular homes are crap and don't resell well. That is wrong. Once sealed to the foundation, modular homes are just as good as stick built homes and are HUD-approved in every single way that a stick built home is. Resale value is equal. Something to think about for you and your family!
I still can't get over our condo is worth two NEW 2500sq ft. homes in Washington. One for living and one to rent.
You should go check out the Macy homes. They have a few model homes at the main offices on Ventura Rd (the street between Victoria and Johnson that runs right up next to the freeway.). You and Sara may want to go that route too.
Washington is one of the places we've considered moving to. Maybe Randy will change his mind. I doubt it, but maybe somewhere in the future.
As far as rental rates, they do move with the housing market. Unless of course you are living in your friend's, cousin's, house and the owner doesn't know that Ventura County is NOT rent control.
By the way, prefab and Modular homes RULE !!
http://www.modulardwellings.com/flash_content.html
http://www.thedwellhomesbyempyrean.com
http://www.thedwellhomesbyempyrean.com
and for 2005 over 200k.
I won't be investing in a home until after 2008, hint hint wink wink
Are you thinking that interest rates will come down with a new pres. or are you imagining a fluctuation in the availability of houses causing housing rates to lower? Like the whole interest only POP!!! that will come about soon.
Oh did I forget to mention greedy real estate peeps who are just waiting for the wave of foreclosures once mortgage rates start to climb.
Kill Whitey
Another reason we are looking into Riverwalk, they are the least likely to suffer from a fall out like Brook was talking about. Because we wouldn't/COULDN'T buy if they were overpriced and unlike many we understand mortgage plans/schemes.
As for the investment side of it, I don't know much about the real estate market, so I'll leave that discussion to those of you who sound like you know what you're talking about. I do think that eventually (next couple decades) there will be a lot more houses being put up in Ventura County, just because there is still so much prime undeveloped land that is currently being used for farming, etc. I think there's just too much money to be made for the owners of that kind of land to hold out for too much longer.
I'm interested in the housing prices because Randy and I do have another option- to live nearer to my set of relatives instead of his. We could move tomorrow to somewhere we could afford and could also be around family. Weather doesn't make a difference to me. I've lived through hot, cold, rainy, drought, and snow. I didn't come to Cali for the weather, nor do I stay. Never did cross my mind. I came for a change. Now I stay for only one reason- my husband doesn't want to move. And I can respect his decision, but doesn't mean I understand it. I want to find a way to make both of our dreams come true, as does he.
Housing is a good investment, especially if/when the kid go off to college and they need money and you can take a home equity loan to pay for it. Or to pay off medical bills or other unforeseen circumstances you may come across in your life.
With that provision for VC nurses, cops and FF it still doesn't resolve the issues with the people with mediocre jobs like myself and many others living in VC.
Jared: You never considered it because you never had to. The people with the jobs that can only pay rent think about it a lot. Especially the ones that know renting gets you nothing. I think about it because we want something better. I think of out of state because of better job opportunities, family life (school clubs and not gangs), future financial stability but I stay for friends and theB.
Nate: How do you find those? It seems the real-estate agents sweep them up fast.
I see all my friends who want to buy (including you and Sara) so disheartened because of the ridiculous prices. I agree with you- there should be provisions made for normal middle class families too rather than just teachers ff, cops, and nurses. Pretty soon, it will be an upper class town, just like Santa Barbara, and we won't have a choice but to move. We won't even be able to afford to rent in this town.
or
You could have said nothing, that wouldn't have messed up the
Anyways, you should "come down" a little bit and consider what we are going through now; it is the same thing you went through briefly before. Only this time some of our situations won't change like yours has. If we had the prospect of increasing our pay by 30-20 percent over the next 5 years we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would buy a house already.
PS Nathan: Don't perceive my tone as PO'ed; I'm not.
Dan: renting by the way does not mean you "get nothing" I go to sleep every night NOT having to worry about paying for a leaky roof, a busted water heater or termites. HECK, I don't even have to go to Home Depot when my kitchen light goes out. AND the best part I DONT have a ridiculous mortgage payment.
Nate: here's a site that has autions on land (some forclosed), but be forwarned every invester has his eyes on this sh*t
http://www.landauction.com/tc.php?dest=/auction...
http://california.foreclosure.com
Kristi got it right, when a community can't even have firefighters, nurses or teachers living local, somethings gotta give. Which is where my earlier comment came from. 2008 change is a coming...
http://www.snagajob.com/view_job_detail.asp?Pos...
Does it sound like I want to make money off of the housing market? Sorry, I really didn't want it to come out like that. I am VERY sceptical about the housing market. And I never said I plan to flip a house, i just don't want to be tied down to anything. That is why I talk about first phase homes because it's not likely in 5 years that it would be worth less then what we paid. That is all. And that is my plan.
My plan: in five years figure out if it's worth it to stay.
And I totally agree with Brook; that's why I brought this up. I want my financial stability in property and not the stock market, the only other real other option.
The second one, was just responding to your comment about me "never having to" consider the alternatives. I was just saying that at points in the not too distant past, I have had to deal with thinking about that stuff.
I was mostly just saying that I don't put too much value in monetary stuff in general, and owning a house is no exception. Not bagging on it, just saying that it's not the most important thing in life.
I meant you could have said nothing becuase I really dislike when people talk about how much they earn, because it comes across as bragging even though it isn't meant to be. That is why I also said come down a little bit. And you speaking of how much you earn only reassures my opinion, that if you have you don't worry about what you don't.
Randy is working overtime and I'm working now during school- so that when I'm finished next May, we'll have all our debt paid off and be able to concentrate on buying one of those 700 square footers on the avenue. Yippee. That's all we'll still be able to afford even with 2 people making good money working full time. That's the real world.
Link
"Rising prices have also raised the issue of how affordable housing is in some parts of the country. The California Association of Realtors expects the median price of a home in that state will reach $575,000 by next year. Only 16 percent of the state's population can afford a home at that price, the association noted."
http://www.rismedia.com/index.php/article/artic...
?? "fake world" ??
All I have to add is:
There will continue to be complaints of house prices in areas that don't have the jobs/industry to support the people/families that work in said areas. ( a reference back to Kristi's post on firefighters, policemen, etc. who can't afford to live in the county they work)
Areas of greater choice and opportunity/options seem to speak loudly at times like this. I have a decent job in SB and can't even pretend to afford the crappiest place in Ventura. (Mobile homes are $600K in SB, not that I would want to be there anyway.)
Ventura/SB doesn't offer much variety for jobs. None that I know of would pay me enough to afford a home. Even if I ran one of the local companies, without money in the bank, by the time I saved enough for a downpament houses in VC would be $800+. No thanks. At that point I am practically a slave to my employer, like my co-workers (who bought 5+ years ago, a much different time)
It's time to expand. I'm ready to move. To a city like SF, NYC where I can at least have some choices of employers and also work with interesting people. California is a dream that has passed as far as buying anything (and I have low standards.)
I'm also down with some less metro places where I could afford property, but I feel I need to build some value for myself in a place of progressive ideas/technology.
I realize from being here (Ventura) for a year that I didn't hate the city (I lived in LA. for 11 years) but hated LA. I could live in other cities that are much less "me, me and spinners"
Work options and oppurtunities make me feel sane and sleep better. VC needs more industry.
I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly beoming a place you must leave to do that. Sad.
I too do not want it to be another LA or NYC but that is not what he meant.
Jason: You leave, I leave.
1. I want to ultimately live and raise a family in a place where the guy that works the deli at Ralph's can afford to buy a house for his family. That is my benchmark for the community I want to live and raise kids. California is quickly becoming a place you must leave to do that. (it's too dang expensive across the board, hench the reason we are talking about this at all)
2. If I can't find a place like that now, I'm fine to live in a "city" that has more job opportunites and forgo the desire to own a home for a few years until things get more sane or my job experience allows me to get a job that pays me enough to afford a home in a place like Ventura.
And yes I can afford to live in a place like NYC over Ventura. First off I wouldn't live in Manhattan, that is too expensive. I'm not insane. But NYC has much more work opportunites for the skills and experience I have. And these jobs would benefit my career in a huge way. Working in a place where there is limited choices makes employers act cheap. They are the only game in town and they know it. No thanks. I would like more of a healthy and competitive work culture in a town.
I'm not a steel worker so I'm not necessarily looking for more industrial jobs. But I wish this area was trying to attract more companies to be here. Carpinteria kind of does this. But housing costs is a huge problem in this area for employers. It's the main reason people leave my job and the biggest challenge faced at Patagonia, there was a great atricle in the VC Reporter a few weeks ago about Patagonia. They are actually conisdering building apratment buildings for the employees so they can live rent free and save for a home. That is telling indeed of the real problems this type of situation creates.
It's not that I hate it the way it is. I just wish it was different. Ventura is wonderful and was affordable for generations prior to this one. I wish it was different.
I don't mind moves. Me and my wife move well. I will miss the Bridge, but we are also realistic about our situation and making plans for the future that are going to be smart for us long term.
And while I don't think we need another LA or NYC I don't think that would be a bad thing. But what we do need is some more Austins and some San Franciscos 0.5 or 2.0s (1/2 the size and double the size of the current SF area) and some more Portlands and Seattles. More choice of places to live, places that have jobs and affordable housing, and decent school systems. It will happen. It will take 25 - 30 years but this will happen.
The people in these houses must have bought when property was cheap, which it was for years in Ventura, and they are selling and cashing in on a bigger place in VC. Or they are cashing out and retiring at 40 in other states off of the $1,000,000 they made off of a $100,000 investment or inheritance. It's quickly beoming the case that only VPs can afford anything in the county, unless both husband and wife are working at a pretty high level career wise, which is tough to do here.
And yes people are okay with it (people that love the sun or love where the land and water meet, or people that can afford it) but some are not and I am not able to.....and nothing is changing. Except I am getting more clear about my situation.
The problem with Ventura (and by the way "loving" an area is a form of idolatry) has housing priced AS IF they have the industry to support it.
BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP, BUBBLE POP!!!
Kristi>I know several fire fighters who own property in Jersey and commute to NY.
One of the hospitals with a great oncology nursing program (they are all out in east, by the way, except for one in Seattle and one in NM) was at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in NYC. I don't think I could live in or near NYC for many reasons.
Patagonia is awesome for at least considering to do the apartment thing for its employees! I think that it shows how much they value their employees and realize how unaffordable it is. They probably (I'm just speculating here) already pay their employees a good wage compared to anywhere else in America, but that the dollar doesn't quite stretch as far here. Especially for housing. Wish more companies would take Patagonia's lead.
The only thing that holds us back now is the great job that I have.
Like I said before, in 5 years: That will most likely be the time for us to pack up, if ever.
Are we finally dying down now? I hope it wasn't because people's feelings got hurt. Because this post and it's comments, heated or not, hasn't changed my opinion about you all. And I've actually got to know you all more; Kristi and BB.
:D